Tim Zimmerman:-Could Climate Change Lead to World War?

I had the following brief discourse with Tim at http://timzimmermann.com/2011/03/11/could-climate-change-lead-to-world-war/

Tims CV looks impressive, “(I am a Washington-DC based writer, interested in politics, history and adventure. I am a Correspondent for Outside magazine, a former Senior Editor and Diplomatic Correspondent for US News & World Report, and author of The Race (Houghton Mifflin, 2002).”, so I though I might get some sense out of him.

Well what I got was somewhat contemptous to put it mildly and he steadfastly refused to attempt to answer any questions at all.

Well here we are Tim, its never too late on my blog, and I always welcome opinions of any sort, provided they are reasonably referenced or have followable logic!

I know some of my comments are used in different places and apologise for the repetition. However I feel that these are important questions and logic.

I have not had anyone attempt to overtly refute them yet.

rogerthesurf permalink March 11, 2011 8:47 pm

Should we act on the climate change information we have been fed?

I think this little post of mine illustrates that dilemma very well.





JV permalink March 12, 2011 12:49 pm

Roger, presuming your supposition that “we’ve been fed” climate change is accurate, which it isn’t, what would be the motivation of all of these “crazed scientists” in doing so? It’s obvious that denying climate change benefits industry, and not humanity. Heaven forbid that mankind ask the corporate world to pay for it’s toxification of the atmosphere and oceans, or just check itself from destabilizing the global ecosystem. Unless you’ve been dwelling in a hole in New Zealand, how could you not recognize the climate change even within your own lifespan? I read your blog on the topic. It’s not well reasoned, and inaccurate. In the future I recommend you limit your blogging to topics which don’t rely upon reason or the scientific method, perhaps fiction.

rogerthesurf permalink March 13, 2011 2:20 am


Thanks for your answer.

I have to suggest though that you read my conversation with Doug and Denise just a little more closely.

First of all, they appear to be well educated scientists. Doug even offered some opinions on the use of the null hypothesis etc., but when faced with questions that ask them the proof of their assertions, according to the scientific rules they have been taught, and no doubt teach, they first of all avoided the question and then fell silent.

Now it is true that, if, reducing CO2 emissions, to the levels demanded by the IPCC, was just a matter of changing your light bulbs and using your bicycle more often, the current “evidence” of Global Warming would suffice. However the cost to us all of meeting the IPCC demands, to an economist, looks absolutely horrendous.

Below is a short analysis that would be fairly obvious to any second year economics student.

“In the absence of sufficient alternative solutions/technologies, the only way western countries can ever attain the IPCC demands of CO2 emissions reduced to 40% below 1990 levels, (thats about 60% below todays) is to machine restrictions on the use of fossil fuels. Emission Trading schemes are an example.

As the use of fossil fuels is roughly linear with anthropogenic CO2 emissions, to attain a 60% reduction of emissions , means about the same proportion of reduction of fossil fuel usage, including petrol, diesel, heating oil, not to mention coal and other types including propane etc.

No matter how a restriction on the use of these is implemented, even a 10% decrease will make the price of petrol go sky high. In otherwords, (and petrol is just one example) we can expect, if the IPCC has its way, a price rise on petrol of greater than 500%.
First of all, for all normal people, this will make the family car impossible to use. Worse than that though, the transport industry will also have to deal with this as well and they will need to pass the cost on to the consumer. Simple things like food will get prohibitively expensive. Manufacturers who need fossil energy to produce will either pass the cost on to the consumer or go out of business. If you live further than walking distance from work, you will be in trouble.
All this leads to an economic crash of terrible proportions as unemployment rises and poverty spreads.
I believe that this will be the effect of bowing to the IPCC and the AGW lobby. AND as AGW is a hoax it will be all in vain. The world will continue to do what it has always done while normal people starve and others at the top, (including energy/oil companies and emission traders) will enjoy the high prices and margins. This is exactly what OPEC has been trying to do for the last 30 odd years!

Neither this scenario nor any analysis of the cost of CO2 emission reductions is included in IPCC literature, and the Stern report which claims economic expansion is simply not obeying economic logic as it is known in todays academic world.

One should not forget the proposed wealth transfers also demanded by the IPCC. These will simply exacerbate the situation severely.

The fact that the emission reduction cost issue is not discussed, leads me to believe that there is a deliberate cover up of this issue. Fairly obviously the possibility of starvation will hardly appeal to the masses.

The above brings us to another point in your answer. “It’s obvious that denying climate change benefits industry, and not humanity”

I think you are entirely incorrect there. From the analysis above you can see that the AGW lobby is playing directly into the fossil fuel industries hands.

Why do some scientists promote AGW? Well right or wrong, at the moment supporting AGW is good for your career.

Why does AGW receive support from influential people?
Well one reason could be found at these websites. I am quite sure those names would not be there without permission!

” how could you not recognize the climate change even within your own lifespan?”
I personally have never denied the climate is changing, what is at issue is whether it is anthropogenic.

AGW promoters have cleverly mixed CO2 emissions with other genuine pollution issues. Please do not think because I do not regard CO2 as a pollutant, that I do not share any concern for things like heavy metal pollution, water contamination or even pollution caused by carelessness with oil extraction.
I believe that one should also seperate these in your reasoning rather than accept that AGW is synonymous with with industrial pollution.

” I read your blog on the topic. It’s not well reasoned, and inaccurate”
Finally, if you have any issues with my blog, I would appreciate if you point out exactly where any inaccuracies are and if any authority is needed to back up the issue, I am sure I have it at hand.





rogerthesurf permalink March 19, 2011 7:27 pm

Hi Tim,

Thanks for publishing my comment.

I am looking forward to your reply, hope you can publish one soon.




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One Response to “Tim Zimmerman:-Could Climate Change Lead to World War?”

  1. Pete Ridley Says:

    Hi Roger, I see that you have in the past exchanged opinions with another staunch environmentalist and self-proclaimed famous International climate change journalist Stephen Leahy (https://globalwarmingsupporter.wordpress.com/39-2/stephen-leahy-international-environmental-journalistdiscovering-global-environmental-interconnections/) who also is eager to quote economist Stern.

    I came across his blog (http://stephenleahy.net/) today when researching a dubious politically motivated organisation ICLEI and posted a couple of comments to his recent “Sir Nicholas Stern on Our Way to Calamitious-5C” thread

    My first comment was along the lines of QUOTE: .. economist Stern (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_Stern,_Baron_Stern_of_Brentford) says “ .. humanity faces a 50-percent chance of warming the planet a whopping 5.0 degrees C by the end of this century .. ” does not make that anything other than pure speculation. You may well have “ .. been writing about climate science for 15 years and have interviewed experts all over the world .. “ but that does not make you an expert in the processes and drivers of the different global climates .. even those with relevant expertise in one of the many scientific disciplines that are contributing to improving our poor understanding of those processes and drivers are struggling with the science and have to speculate about feedback effects. .. The evidence does not support your comment about the level of scientific understanding of climate processes and drivers “ .. that understanding is well-established and they have been proven right over the past two decades .. ”. From 1991 – 2011 the estimated atmospheric CO2 levels are claimed to have continued to rise whereas the estimated mean global temperature appears to have remained virtually stagnant. It is hard to understand how such evidence supports an opinion that positive feedback is driving the globe towards a temperature tipping point beyond which climate catastrophe awaits. ..

    I see that you are holding out the begging bowl “It costs just $5 a week – about the price of a cappuccino or a cheap pint – to support enviro journalism that serves the public interest. Simply: Without your support I can’t work for all of us. — Stephen. Contributions can be made safely and easily via PayPal or Credit Card” (Note 9). ..


    Because of his involvement with ICLEI I also sent him an E-mail that I received today from a fellow CACC sceptic QUOTE: Subject: Here’s a can of worms that needs opening:
    ICLEI .. (http://www.freedomadvocates.org/documents/doc_details/understanding_sustainable_development_-_agenda_21_-_for_the_people_and_their_public_officials/) .. is a spin-off of the UN’s Agenda 21. Keep in mind that it is a NON-government organization. (NGO). Run by authorities our citizenry has not voted for, yet because our stupid local governments have signed to their charter they can over-ride our democratically elected governments. .. UNQUOTE.

    His response was QUOTE: .. of course this is wrong…i have personal knowledge of the organization. It is made up of elected officials with a small admin staff. and has little to do the UN other than being registered and going to meetings… funding comes from cities and towns. pete, I have been down this road endless times in the past 10 yrs. You have already made up your mind as many so-called skeptics have so this will be my last communication with you .. UNQUOTE

    Do you have any knowledge of ICLEI that you’d like to share?

    Best regards, Pete Ridley

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