I’m sorry, I meant ‘Medieval Climatic Anomaly’

I left the following comment at http://tenthmedieval.wordpress.com/2010/04/05/im-sorry-i-meant-medieval-climatic-anomaly/

I think it deserves an answer.

Here are some references about the medieval warm period which show it was not local.
You could also check out the links on my blog

http://www.rogerfromnewzealand.wordpress.com about Greenland, Switzerland, Greenland ice cores and the US on my blog.

Well here is an anecdotal one about Spain.
http://tenthmedieval.wordpress.com/2010/01/09/darn-climate-sceptics-get-out-of-my-field/

Of course the medieval warm period shows up in other literature as well, such as a New Zealnd study

http://ruby.fgcu.edu/courses/twimberley/EnviroPhilo/CookPalmer.pdf

or if you want to read “Grove, J.M. 988:The little ice age.by methuen.

Warm periods are well documented by other cultures eg

http://www.springerlink.com/content/gh98230822m7g01l/ etc

where the historical history of China’s climate is examined.

Medieval warming and earlier periods are even suggested in the Antarctic Ice core project.
http://www.pages.unibe.ch/products/newsletters/2009-1/special%20section/science%20highlights/Bentley+Hodgson_2009-1(28-29).pdf

and the Pacific warm pool.

I could go on.

Oops did someone say localised?

Of course the MWP is only one of a number of warming (warmer than the present) which have occured in historical times.

Lets not forget that during the Holocene period, the Sahara was lush and fertile. Do some reading on that maybe? http://www.jstor.org/pss/2997337 is a good start.

Its a little irrelevant but I like this video clip where Obama is laughed at when mentioning climate change in speech http://www.hootervillegazette.com/climatejoke.html

Cheers

Roger

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9 Responses to “I’m sorry, I meant ‘Medieval Climatic Anomaly’”

  1. rogerthesurf Says:

    Ed
    “How in the world could it be that the Earth’s climate being warmer than present, in the Holocene maximum, disprove CO2 as a greenhouse gas today? There’s no logical link.”

    I assume by “green house gas” you mean Anthropogenic CO2 causes Global Warming” as I have never denied that CO2 is a greenhouse gas.

    Without meaning to call you names Ed, that statement shows that you have limited powers of logic.

    But you believe what you like, its your right.

    In the meantime I suggest you watch this video of the sequences leading up to a terrible plane crash.

    Its a good example of a hypothesis and a coincidence. If you think hard you may see how it relates to the Global Warming hypothesis.

    Cheers

    Roger

    • Ed Darrell Says:

      Without meaning to call you names Ed, that statement shows that you have limited powers of logic.

      Especially limited by your tinfoil hat. Can’t penetrate that.

  2. rogerthesurf Says:

    Ed,

    As usual you miss the point,

    The Holocene Maximum is just one of a number of warm periods (seperated by cold periods) which have occurred in historical times. If you took the trouble to read my blog properly, you would have read at Schnidejoch, some of the archaeological findings are from this period.

    The Medieval Warm Period is just the most recent one followed by the Little Ice Age which appears to have ended about 1820.

    These things in themselves dont prove anything except that the world heats up and cools independently of CO2 levels.

    However they most certainly DISPROVE the Anthropogenic CO2 causes Global Warming hypothesis.

    Most independent sources including the 1990 IPCC reports agree that the Holocene maximum was warmer than present.

    Cheers

    Roger

    • Ed Darrell Says:

      As usual, Roger, you miss the point.

      These things in themselves dont prove anything except that the world heats up and cools independently of CO2 levels.

      No one disputes that. You imply that means that the present warming is not due to CO2, however, and surely you must understand that other forcings do not mean that CO2 no longer warms as a greenhouse gas.

      However they most certainly DISPROVE the Anthropogenic CO2 causes Global Warming hypothesis.

      Balderdash. History indicates that CO2 warmed the Earth enough for life to begin, spread and flourish. That there were warm periods in the past does not mean that CO2 has stopped working now.

      That other causes for warm periods existed in the past does not mean that CO2 is not the cause of our present danger. Volcanic coolings do not mean that volcanoes are the only mechanism by which the Earth’s climate may be cooled. There are many ways Earth’s climate can be affected — CO2’s greenhouse effect is a well-documented way, and you’ve don’t nothing to prove that God, Thor, or Lord Monckton changed the physical laws of the universe so CO2 doesn’t act like CO2 any more.

      Most independent sources including the 1990 IPCC reports agree that the Holocene maximum was warmer than present.

      With evidence provided through paleoclimatology, which you now claim is wholly in error (the subject of the purloined e-mails, you know).

      You can’t dismiss an entire branch of science as unworkable and unworking just because you don’t like its conclusions on one end, while defending as absolutely accurate the workings of the science on the other end, ethically.

      Was it warmer in the Holocene maximum? In some places. Cooler in some places, too, the evidence is clear. Was it warmer overall?

      How in the world could it be that the Earth’s climate being warmer than present, in the Holocene maximum, disprove CO2 as a greenhouse gas today? There’s no logical link.

  3. Ed Darrell Says:

    Lets not forget that during the Holocene period, the Sahara was lush and fertile.

    That’s a pretty reckless claim. Last I flew over, it was a desert.

    Do you know when the holocene is?

    But, if you regularly make errors of 12 or 20 centuries, it’s only climate, right? What’s a couple of millennia error among friends?

    • rogerthesurf Says:

      Try using google there Ed and find out for yourself.

      • Ed Darrell Says:

        Here, Roger, let me save you the trouble:

        The Holocene is a geological epoch which began approximately 12,000 years ago[1] (10 000 14C years ago). According to traditional geological thinking, the Holocene continues to the present.

        It used to be known as the Sahara Forest, back when I was in lumbering, but we were very aggressive in delivering product.

      • rogerthesurf Says:

        Ed

        Correct,

        Of course the Holocene wasnt warmer than the present all that time, but during the Holocene Maximum which was about 5000-6000 years ago, the climate was considerably warmer than today. This is the age of the rise of the ancient civilizations while our ancestors were running around with blue mud on.
        During the Holocene maximum it is evident from a number of archaeological sources that the Sahara was fertile during this period. Check out http://www.jstor.org/pss/2997337
        Ed there are even rock paintings and stuff found in the Sahara today. Maybe you could see if you can google those as well.
        This is only one of a number of warm periods within historical times. Maybe you can think about what this means a little.

        Cheers

        Roger

      • Ed Darrell Says:

        There’s a solid dispute about whether the holocene was warmer then — did you read that paper, or just clip the URL? — but little dispute that it was wetter in the Sahara, and that desertification was significantly less than today.

        Either way, that’s not evidence against human-caused global warming today with CO2 as the culprit.

        People used to die of typhoid a lot more often than now. People used to die of simple infections from cuts. That doesn’t mean that MRSA can’t exist today. Don’t confuse post hoc with proximate or ultimate cause. That’s called a post hoc ergo propter hoc error. You could look it up.

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