Eclectic Cafe – Is the American Power Act a Good Bill?

I left the following message at  http://marialeonardi.wordpress.com/2010/05/16/is-the-american-power-act-a-good-bill/

I have to admit that the sliding of America into socialism which is continuing at an ever increasing rate is distressing to me.

It is possible that the younger people of today such as Maria are unable to recognise the symptoms.

I think a good yardstick is the percentage of income that each individual has to pay to the government.

For instance in P R China from about 1949 till the death of Mao Tse Tung, the tax rate was 100%. you were not able to keep any of the direct fruits of your labour, everyone was paid a benefit in cash and ration coupons, and trading was banned except by the government.

In my country which probably leads the US in its slide to communism, most normal people pay more than 40% of their income to the government plus rates and permit fees to local government. Probably more than 50%* of the NZ population receive a benefit in one or more of the many forms from the tax payer with about 11%  (http://www.nzstats.auckland.ac.nz ) of the total population relying entirely on the tax payer for living. I guess conservatively we are about  40% communist already.

I do believe, ironically, that soon we will be looking up at the P R of China as the worlds leader in freedom of choice and consequent democracy.

Maria

“But perhaps it is better to take a small step towards an important goal than to allow a crucial issue to remain at a standstill because a compromise cannot be reached”

Exactly who are you that you feel qualified to comment and make opinions (without explaining your logic or reveiling the source of your authoritive facts) on such an important bill which will, if passed effect the wealth and lifestyle of all normal americans and trading partners, probably for the foreseeable future.
Cheers

Roger

This comment will be posted on my blog http://www.globalwarmingsupporter.wordpress.com (under the title and URL of your post), where my readers will await your answer.

 

 

* Can find no statistics of total welfare recipient numbers but the NZ Social welfare system ranges from provided housing, food suppliments, housing subsidies and work subsidies. Also if heath subsidies are included I would have to say that 100% of New Zealanders are welfare recipients. The more wealthy/cautious have private health cover but no rebate from the government health is available.

http://www.michaelbassett.co.nz/articles.htm  Read what an ex socialist Member of Parliament deduces after a number of terms giving our tax payers cash away.

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4 Responses to “Eclectic Cafe – Is the American Power Act a Good Bill?”

  1. rogerthesurf Says:

    Maria,

    A an economics student you must know that governments generally cannot succesfully create employment. All they can do is use tax payers money to give that appearance but the extra taxes etc simply make employment shrink across the rest of the economy.
    Think about your bill in those terms.
    Perhaps you could research whether there is still a price differential between US domestically produced oil and imported oil? If there still is, no wonder the US is increasingly dependant on imported oil!
    If people want green industries, maybe the finance should be raised by public subscription. There may be enough people who are willing to invest in a money losing industry for idelogical reasons without taking money from everyone whether they like it or not.
    Now that would be a truely democratic way of attaining some of the objectives of your bill. And if there turn out to be too few subscribers? Well that would show what people really think about green industry.

    Cheers

    Roger

  2. rogerthesurf Says:

    Lachlan,
    Thanks for your comment.

    Yes I know exactly what socialism is and what the eventual effect it has on a countries economy and people.
    I also live in a country that has slipped to the left because of a rabidly socialist government between 1999 and 2009 leaving us a country of ample natural wealth and skilled population dropping severely in the world standard of living ranks.
    I was around when your earlier socialist thinking president (Carter) caused your oils shock by putting price control on the price of US domestically produced oil.
    Like Maria, I am a graduate of Economics and I when I see a government spending 150 billion on projects that will not stand on their own two feet, I see socialism, increased government control and a reduction in the rights of the citizen.
    Like I said, watch China if you want to see emerging true democracy in action. They have overtaken the US already by embracing capitalism and the free market, and they have only just got started. Why do they embrace the free market and repudiate government interference in industry so thoroughly? Because they spent 50 years starving while the government ran everything! In other words they learnt the hard way!

    A healthy planet? Absolutely I want that too. Did you read my blog http://www.rogerfromnewzealand.wordpress.com ? There is plenty to do without running after the fictitious enemy of CO2.

    Cheers

    Roger

  3. Lachlan Says:

    Hi Roger,

    I’m a through-and-through conservative (I write for NewsBusters, one of the leading center-right blogs on the Web), but I must take issue with this post. Unfortunately, many conservatives seem to be taking too broad a view of socialism – one that encompasses, well, anything they don’t like. It distresses me, as using the label willy-nilly, as you do, simply belittles the horrors of the economic system to which the term actually refers.

    Socialism is in fact the direct ownership of the means of production by the working class. Describing it as you do distorts its meaning. It does not, in fact, refer to a system with high tax rates and redistributive social welfare policies. I think the common parlance for that system is now “social democracy,” but calling it socialism makes light of the true horrors of the socialist system as advocated by Marx and his many misguided disciples.

    I only point this out because using the term socialism as you do simply serves to undermine your argument and make you sound like you don’t know what you’re talking about. If this woman, Maria, were a socialist, she would not advocate a carbon trading scheme, she would demand that the workers seize control of industry and direct production for the “common good” – whatever that means. Obviously that’s not what she has in mind.

    Furthermore, your shrill accusations against her – “without explaining your logic or reveiling [sic] the source of your authoritive [sic] facts” – completely ignore what, you know, she actually wrote. If you want to argue against the Senate cap and trade legislation, you might want to read it. If you had, you would probably realize that Maria was drawing directly from the Kerry-Lieberman bill.

    I agree with you that a cap and trade scheme is at best extremely hazardous and at worst extremely destructive. But your babbling about a socialist specter that grossly misrepresents the reality of that economic system, coupled with your apparent ignorance of the topic on which you evidently believe you are an authority, only serves to undermine not only your position, but the position of every conservative who seeks to maintain a healthy planet without succumbing to the temptations of a state-controlled economy of any sort.

    So in the future, when you decide to comment on this issue or any other, make sure you know what you are talking about.

    Thank you.

    Lachlan

  4. Maria Says:

    Thanks for your comment, but I am unsure why you are referencing me in your opinions that our country is sliding “into socialism.” There was nothing in my article that references this at all.

    I am a supporter of energy security and I certainly welcome the debate as it relates to the new American Power Act. But i do not appreciate the reference to me as ignorant to the sweeping changes that are occurring in our government today.

    In regard to my article outlining the new bill – particularly the points that will most effect our economy and businesses – here is my response posted on my blog:

    “Well in regard to fact – just read the bill.

    The main purpose of this was to summarize some of the major points of the bill – at least the points that will most likely have the biggest impact on American businesses.

    In regard to my opinion, I base this upon my study of economics. No matter what someone’s opinion is of a ‘climate bill’ I believe that energy security is going to be very important for the future of our country. No matter what type of energy we choose to support – I hope we can arrive at a point when our country does not have to depend so much on foreign sources for energy. I realize that it is not realistic to put all of our focus into one source of energy, which is why I devote a lot of my effort into finding cost effective ways to reduce our energy use that also improve the efficiency of businesses and quality of life.

    Thank you for your comment, I was hoping for debate on this issue given the many varieties of bills and opinions we have seen. We may never find the right path without further discussion. A compromise cannot be reached or be effective without the input of many people with diverse opinions.”

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